Air guns are a fun and inexpensive way to get into shooting, whether for target shooting or hunting, powderless guns are great for beginners as well as experienced shooters. And keep in mind, be very careful about the circumstances of using air guns. Colorado air gun laws are a bit different as they may vary from municipal to municipal. So, you can purchase and use an air gun. Unless otherwise prohibited a felon CAN generally hunt legally with an air rifle for small game mammals. Rolling Meadows has such an ordinance. Centerfire firearm (rifles and handguns) It is unlawful to hunt game mammals with:.22 caliber rimfire (except for western gray squirrel). This requires legal interpretation. I made a series of poor decisions as a very young man (18) and lost my privilege to hunt with guns. DC laws on air rifles mainly relate to the sale and use of air guns by minors aged below 18 years. Hunting with AR platforms internationally can be much more challenging. Yours truly, Michael Wendt - Owner. Time spent honing shooting skills, readying equipment and scouting the land for game are enjoyable pastimes and can pay off when the season opens. They use compressed gas and larger caliber pellets . Wouldn't it be better to consult an attorney in your state, rather than rely on the advice/guesses on a public forum? Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 24 total). As such, you can use air rifles to hunt any animals that you would hunt with a conventional gun. Here is a link to get you started. Other than these restrictions, there are no other laws relating to air rifles in Mississippi. Not all options provide the same power, but then they also come in a wide price range. A gun is a deadly weapon per se, which means, in short, that it is a deadly weapon regardless of any other fact.'. No ,not the typical .177 caliber run of the mill pellet rifle tho. Other small animals can be hunted using an air rifle with between .177 and .22 caliber air rifles. Winning is as easy as picking a number, no strings attached! Many states have minimal restrictions on how, when, and for what purpose you use an airgun, others are more restrictive. You can legally hunt deer with air rifles in many states now. These rifles that are legal are PCP air rifles. However, there are some exceptions. Hunting of big games can only be done during the firearms season. For an even better experience, make sure you choose the right air rifle. These rifles that are legal are PCP air rifles. Some of the animals that can be hunted with an air rifle include bobcats, coyotes, chipmunks, and raccoons. That is right. Reason being he knows exactly where to aim. West Virginia has no laws restricting the use of air rifles. I wish you well in your endeavor, and I hope it turns out in your favor. New Mexico does not restrict the use of air rifles. You do not want a situation to arise in which you are accused of and/or charged with using an actual gunpowder-based firearm even though you … If you do that it would then read “It is illegal to hunt deer with any air rifle or any center-fire rifle less than .22 caliber.” That is a very clear statement: No air rifles may be used to hunt deer in Wisconsin. No ,not the typical .177 caliber run of the mill pellet rifle tho. Each state has its own laws on that. Below are the requirements for weapons that can be used to hunt game mammals. There are various 3 types of force. Consult a local “criminal” defense attorney or district attorney. Most animals can be hunted using air rifles in Pennsylvania. Many of them only allow air rifles to be used and the largest caliber I saw listed for those was .30. Big bore air rifle hunting is sweeping the country and catching on in many places. I don't understand how the inclusion of airguns in the definition of a "dangerous weapon" applies, but maybe it does. Think about it. Known as the Whisper Fusion Mach 1, this is a great option for those on a budget. However, you do require a permit to hunt feral hogs on private land. Always check the latest hunting gears out in the market and try to share his honest opinion with the audience in OUTDOOR EVER. Also, feral hogs can only be hunted in private lands. Sine the .22 caliber rifle isn’t as powerful as larger hunting rifles, it can only be used for hunting game animals. For hunting, Florida does not restrict hunting deer with a pellet gun. Become an AGN forum member to be included in our multi-thousand dollar Which states allow bigger game hunting with an air rifle (Deer, Bear, Mountain Lion, Bighorn sheep, etc…. Thus most small games can be hunted using air rifles. There should be something "standardized" across the country so if your willing to toe the line, do the work you can earn them back. Certain air rifles are considered firearms in Illinois. Bottleneck cartridge rifles may only be used to hunt deer during the Firearms Season and Junior Deer Hunt Days in certain counties and locations (see map, Deer Seasons & Bag Limits), subject to local and county ordinances. The experience of hunting with an air rifle is a really interesting, adventurous one. Here in North Carolina, the laws are the same as federal law. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. There are thus no bb gun laws Massachusetts purchase. Do you know any farmers or have access to any farms in your area? You can hunt three animal species using an air rifle in Rhode Island, rabbit, squirrel, and woodchuck. These include pigeons, quail, rabbit, skunk, weasel, and turkey. Not bashing any previous answers  but the best thing would be to make sure of the answer you're seeking. And the more you talk openly about it, and the more you inquire about it to official elected people....the sooner it will come. simpyl tonsee if anyone knew anything it. The Bushbuck will handle any North American and … With the “rimfire rifle” portion added in the word “any” prior to centerfire is also now key. Some of the animals that can be hunted with an air rifle include rabbits, coyotes, feral hogs, squirrels, and foxes. This all depends on your targets, hunting experience, and style..177 vs .22 vs .25 vs .30 vs .357 caliber. Different game requires different license so you want to make sure you have the right licensing and steer clear with the law. As for the animals you can hunt with air rifles, they are mostly small game. The experience of hunting with an air rifle is a really interesting, adventurous one. When it comes to air gun hunting, it is generally acceptable. Big game air gun hunting is allowed. Some states say you can't possess any weapons as part of your release as a felon. The first thing to understand is that air rifles are not legally considered firearms by the US government. Most of the time, you need to aim for the head. So, find out what the law says you cannot do, then be very careful and look up the legal definition of the terms used. Always use air guns responsibly, and know that they are never allowed on school grounds and other posted areas. Small game hunting of raccoons, rabbits, porcupine, skunk, and other small game. Air guns in New Jersey are considered firearms and are subject to all regulations relating to other types of weapons. Can a .22 kill a deer? Here is one thing to remember: Most of the time the law will state what you cannot do, rather than what you can do. While they are not as powerful as conventional rifles, air guns or BB guns are still considered lethal in most states. Kansas – no hunting bullfrogs or turtles with an air gun. As such, only small game air rifle hunting is allowed under air hunting laws. Crossbows are illegal in the State of Wisconsin, with an exception for handicapped people. However, you can only use a .17 caliber air rifle or larger on private lands. If you're shooting $9 arrows to kill your game you probably need at least a 357-9mm Benjamin Bulldog. Kansas – no hunting bullfrogs or turtles with an air gun. It puts more money in the pot for funding to be used on land and resources conservation projects. airgun forum. For coyotes, the recommended caliber is .35. It's already bad enough that airgun enthusiast's have pushed the limits to large caliber repeaters that are actually capable of killing people. If this is right then you owe me some money for giving out the wrong legal advise. Although I'm sure that will cost you a couple hundred. As with some other states, Nevada mostly prohibits the display or use of air rifles in public places and educational places. This applies to black bear and whitetail deer. As long as it does not act by force of gunpowder, then you should be fine. Do you know any farmers or have access to any farms in your area? For most big game such as Elk, PCP rifles are accepted for hunting. Finally, if you plan on hunting with your air rifle, you’re going to need to learn the local laws and how they apply to you. Monthly Airgun Giveaways! Second, does it violate state law in Wisconsin, or whatever state you are going to hunt in? If you are looking for Air Rifle Forum Canada And Air Rifle Hunting In WisconsinAir Rifle Forum Canada And Air Rifle Hunting In Wisconsin If you seeking special discount you may need to searching when special time come or holidays. For most other animals, the accepted caliber is .22 or larger. Open carry is legal for any person who is 18 years or older who is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under state and federal laws. This all depends on your targets, hunting experience, and style..177 vs .22 vs .25 vs .30 vs .357 caliber. Big game air gun hunting is allowed. The use of air rifles on private land is, however, acceptable. Bats Unprotected species In the months leading up to the various Wisconsin seasons, hunters across the state anxiously await their favorite time of year. Do You Need a Permit to Carry a Gun in Wisconsin? I buy a license to gun hunt almost every year for that reason. Missouri makes it an offense to handle an air rifle negligently, while intoxicated or in a manner to cause harm. You can, however, use an air rifle for hunting. Furthermore, the air rifle needs to produce at least 400 FPE. Suggest you consult with an attorney, but it appears that an air gun is a "dangerous weapon" in Wisconsin, not a firearm. It does not take a high caliber to put down a turkey if you … ', 'A dangerous weapon includes a gun, a pellet gun, whether loaded or unloaded, locked or unlocked, and whether or not the weapon is capable of firing whenever the item is used in a manner consistent with having the potential of causing great bodily harm or death. Concealed carry is legal with a Wisconsin Concealed Weapons License (CWL) or a license/permit from a state that Wisconsin honors. The state, therefore, does not have any laws restricting the use of these guns. And if enough former felons start asking then they'll come up with a reason why it should be illegal for you to own an air rifle. Therefore, I recommend heavily researching the country if you plan to attempt an international hunt with your AR platform rifle. There are no laws restricting air rifles in Maryland. The Florida law on air rifle requires any minor under the age of 16 who uses an air rifle to be supervised by an adult. New Jersey – the air gun must be at least .177 caliber but no larger than .22 caliber, and it must be capable of shots with a velocity of least 600 FPS. Deer hunting: Bill to allow air bows during archery season makes its way through Legislature The original bill allowed the use of air bows by disabled hunters during archery season for … When it comes to hunting, air guns with a caliber of between .177 and .22 with at least 600 FPS are allowed for small game hunting. 'The Court of Appeals of Wisconsin defined "firearm" for the possession of firearm by felon statute (Wisconsin Statute 941.29(2)) to mean a weapon that acts by force of gun powder to fire a projectile, irrespective of whether it is inoperable due to disassembly. For hunting, though, you need a .22 caliber or larger air rifle for black bear, deer, and moose. Thus no permit is required to purchase an air rifle in Hawaii. Like Alabama, Alaska also does not have any laws restricting or regulating air rifles. Mississippi prohibits the carrying, whether concealed or not, of an air rifle in an educational property. If you are a felon  and don't want to drop the soap again, talk to a lawyer and get legal advice. Rolling Meadows Air Rifle Ordinance. Hunting With a Pellet Gun. Ohio does not have laws restricting air rifles, and most small game can be hunted using air rifles. Not all options provide the same power, but then they also come in a wide price range. For turkey season, you can also use a.30 caliber air rifle. Wisconsin prohibits the use of air rifles in school premises. For instance, for alligator hunting, you need at least a.30 caliber rifle. In states that have close-quarter deer hunting in thick woods, the 30-caliber air rifle would be perfect. The answer is yes. The real question is. Delaware air rifle laws prohibit anyone from owning or possessing any weapon capable of discharging a pellet by compressed air. In other words, it must state that you cannot own/use/hunt with an air rifle. Air rifles can only be used on small game in DC, this includes gray and ground squirrel, coyote, beavers, and gophers. The first item on our list is from Gamo and was designed for stealthy hunting and accurate shot placement. You will still need a hunting license to be able to hunt legally. As such, you can use air rifles to hunt any animals that you would hunt with a conventional gun. But I have doubt about the ability of these types of air guns to cleanly and efficiently take small game and I do not want to waste $9 arrows shooting with my compound. You can legally hunt deer with air rifles in many states now. Either way, thank you for the assist. As to federal law, you will find that airguns and muzzle loader guns are not currently prohibited to be possessed by convicted felons. Each state has its own laws on that. Nonetheless, air guns that shoot a projectile that is less than 18 inches in diameter are not considered as firearms. Because of the ever changing laws, use this map as a guide, but consult with your local state authorities to be sure there are no recent state changes impacting hunting laws and regulations in that particular state! Vermont does not have specific laws restricting the use of air guns. Are felons prohibited from possessing any type of dangerous weapon? It is illegal to display or use an air gun in any public space or land, except for authorized gun ranges. Air rifles are classified as firearms. California does allow the use of air rifles for hunting. Big game air rifle hunting is allowed but only with a .40 caliber or larger air rifle. This applies to all the small game that you can hunt with an air rifle, from squirrels, Opossums to Raccoons. Obviously that may change in the future. In any case, check out the information on the link, then maybe give the lawer a call to get clarification on any questions you might have. I have never heard of a state making a distinction between a springer and other types of airguns, but there is always a first time. Bonds with family and friends strengthen during the hunting seasons as old traditions continue and new ones begin. Criminal Lawyer: Roger, Lawyer replied 10 years ago This is the only law relating to air rifles in the state. Arizona allows air rifles for all (with caliber requirements for larger game), but, Bison and Elk are forbidden to be hunted with air rifles. Learn how your comment data is processed. Each air gun comes with Multiple prices and trigger sensitivity. If you required light trigger pull then always remembe… You can hunt coyotes, armadillos, feral hogs, rabbits, and squirrels using an air gun in this state. Outdoorever.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. For bighorn sheep and black bears in particular, an air rifle with an FPE of at least 350 is recommended. This is why most of the states that do allow you to hunt turkey with a rifle, only allow small calibers such as a .22 long rifle, .22 magnum, or a .223 at the largest. Get property owners permission, be respectful to them and their property, be safe, and leave the place as you found it...  you won't miss firearms at all. Can i Legally use an AR15/.223 for hunting in Wisconsin? You must be logged in to reply to this topic. However, there are some rules on what kind of air rifles can be used and for what. My name is Rick. For purposes of this definition, a single projectile that is .177 or larger and with a muzzle velocity of at least 600 FPS. It's already bad enough that airgun enthusiast's have pushed the limits to large caliber repeaters that are actually capable of killing people. Do your own due diligence. There aren’t any laws restricting air rifles in Oregon. Other than that, there aren’t other laws relating to air rifles. Also, you can only use a .35 caliber or larger PCP rifle for this. Many hunters use the .22 air rifle for hunting deer. In order for something to be a firearm and under the purview of the ATF, it must expel a projectile by means of a combustive explosion or use the frame from something that does. As for hunting, there are several animals you can hunt with an air rifle. In other words, it must state that you cannot own/use/hunt with an air rifle. Air rifles do not fall under the classification of firearms. Nevertheless, you can only use a .22 caliber air rifle for dispatching bobcat, beavers, badgers, and furbearers. However, displaying or using an air rifle in public lands or public places is illegal under most municipal bylaws. Initially when going to acquire your Wisconsin hunting license, you want to know what you are looking to hunt. Yes, and then no. Rifles will be allowed statewide for gun deer hunting seasons beginning Nov. 1, according to a Tuesday announcement from the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources. I would check the state's definition of a firearm and make sure no airguns of any type have been included. However, the firing of air rifles can be done at any approved gun range. Any info any one would have would be more than helpful. You will still need a hunting license to be able to hunt legally. You can use an air gun to hunt most small animals ranging from chipmunks, pigeons, rabbits to raccoons and red squirrels. The purpose of the post I spose was to see if any one else had any other information that wasnt included in the link you sent me. The … Be sure to come back when you have a better idea of what type of airgun you might want to purchase. As such, While it is legal to own an air rifle, it is illegal to display an air rifle in a public place. And the more you talk openly about it, and the more you inquire about it to official elected people….the sooner it will come. The bigger the caliber size, the bigger the animal you can take down. There are other animals that you can hunt with an air rifle, including feral hogs and coyotes. ', 'Under Wisconsin laws, a pellet gun, or an air gun, is not a firearm; however, all guns, regardless of their propulsion material, CAN and ARE considered dangerous weapons if used in a manner that the gun can or does produce great bodily harm or death. For hunting, Georgia does allow the use of air rifles. North Dakota laws on air rifles do not consider them as firearms. The only exception is a BB or air gun that shoots a projectile not larger than a BB shot. This restriction also applies to giving a minor aged below 18 years an air rifle. Powerful air rifles are considered firearms and have the same regulations as guns. A good reason NOT to call your local sherrifs office is because they might not actually know. In fact if you read the small game regs it even mentions that I think. Fully automatic firearms. Always use air guns responsibly, and know that they are never allowed on school grounds and other posted areas. Nonetheless, there are guidelines for air rifle hunting. As you can see from our reviews, there is a lot to consider when searching for the best deer hunting air rifle. It is illegal to be in possession of an air rifle in any park that is under the jurisdiction of the Department of Parks, Recreation, and Tourism. Next thing you know..... that's going to be the new law. For hunting purposes, air rifles are generally acceptable. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. New Jersey – the air gun must be at least .177 caliber but no larger than .22 caliber, and it must be capable of shots with a velocity of least 600 FPS. And on state lands, the air rifle caliber you use should not exceed .22 caliber. You see, hunting is a skill that takes time to perfect. Why become a felon in the first place. I have three sons, my oldest is turning 5 and I wanted to give him an air rifle for his birthday and get one myself and target shoot with him. A good reason NOT to call your local sherrifs office is because they might not actually know. Hunting northern pocket gopher, bobwhite quails, English sparrow, and spotted skunks are prohibited. And good luck! Unless you are referring to caliber, in which case I am aware of  .177, .22, .25, .45 and .50 caliber. Just because you can buy an air gun doesn’t mean that you can hunt with it. Michigan used to define certain types of air pistols as firearms until that law was changed. Not too long ago it was OK for felons to hunt with black powder, but that loophole was closed. You can hunt different animals on private land, including feral goat, hogs, axis deer, and mouflon. Additionally, I wasnt aware there were even different types of airguns, other than springer or compressed gas with a tank models. In Wisconsin where I live, purchase of any hunting license does not prove or show an intent to possess a firearm. ... when hunting hours apply to all bow and gun hunting. I believe I have heard of a .30 and .32 caliber version, but cant be certain. You seem certain you can hunt with a springer. As such, you need a permit to purchase an air rifle. And the only accepted air guns for this are PCP rifles. White-tailed deer hunting with a .45 air rifle that has as much killing power as any muzzleloader. That being said, you can use an air rifle on most animals, including coyotes, feral hogs, and red foxes. Pinking farm pests (rats, crows, pigeons, etc) with an airgun beats the pants off of hunting anything the DNR cares about. And as such, you can use one for hunting on condition it meets the necessary caliber requirements. There is a new law which formulated a hunting mentorship program for novice hunters that will take effect September 1, 2009. However, recent changes to the law no longer make it necessary to have a hunting license for any air gun that has a muzzle velocity of less than 20 joules. Lake Streeter, A Gun enthusiast, and loves to hunt in the middle of the wood. Until 2005 a felon was legally able to hunt with a muzzle loader, but that law was changed to include nuzzle loaders as firearms because of the modern ammo they use. Under colorado bb gun laws, you can only use a .25 caliber or bigger PCP rifle for hunting coyotes and bobcats. In other words, if you take a regular firearm and alter it so that it fires with air instead, it still counts as a firearm legally, but air rifles that were made as air rifles do not. Anyone aged 18 years and above may transport an air rifle within the state provided it is unloaded and well secured. The law states that a felon can't possess a fire arm and a air gun is not a firearm rather if its a .177 or a .50 big bore or a crossbow and of course you can't be on probation or anything like that ….if that was the case you would have to have a federal background check to purchase one ….now the laws might change in the future and you would be in violation of federal law so I would just look into getting your felony expunged or apply for a pardon with the governor of your state it is gonna cost you and if 10 years past with no arrests you should get your gun rights back with no problem…. In addition to these restrictions, some controlled hunts or special areas may have further weapon restriction. Which is pretty cool actually. The accepted whitetail deer hunting air rifle is any .35 caliber rifle powered by an external source. However, it is generally illegal to fire a BB gun in a public place in most cities. My EX is a felon and he can hunt in Wi with an airgun. And if enough former felons start asking then they'll come up with a reason why it should be illegal for you to own an air rifle. With that being said, you will find there are two avenues of research you must do. The bigger the caliber size, the bigger the animal you can take down. For hunting purposes, only whitetail deer can be hunted on private property with air rifles. Wyoming does not have any laws restricting air rifles. Hunting Laws. Next thing you know….. that's going to be the new law. Yes a felon can have or possess an air pellet gun of any type.. A fire arm is a device that uses an explosive gun powder or of the like the shoot out a projectile. Nebraska also has no laws relating to air rifles. In Wisconsin Deer Hunting Regulations Booklet, on page 15 it states. Unlike in some other states in North Carolina for hunting purposes, air rifles are grouped in the same category as conventional firearms. Illinois – you can hunt with air rifles on private property, and you must have owner’s permission. The state laws on air rifles specifically say that local municipalities can craft their own ordinances regarding the use and possession of air rifles and that those ordinances can be more strict. However, the Idaho game and fisheries department requires the use of .45 caliber or larger PCP on big game. Most animals can be hunted using an air rifle in Massachusetts. What Animals Can You Hunt With A .22 Caliber Rifle. Forums › Hunting › Can felons in Wisconsin hunt with airguns? 1 Gamo Whisper Fusion Mach 1 with 3-9×40 Scope – Best Budget Air Rifle for Deer Hunting. It is worth noting that arrow shooting air rifles are not classified as archery equipment and thus not allowed during archery season. I have no idea what the law in Wisconsin says. Get property owners permission, be respectful to them and their property, be safe, and leave the place as you found it…  you won't miss firearms at all. If you are asking if you can rifle hunt deer, the answer is no; however, you can hunt deer with a long bow and arrow, recurve bow, compound bow or … Arkansas does not prohibit the use of air rifles either. Thank you for the link and the information. This means the regulations that apply to conventional guns do not apply to firearms. Both small game and big game air rifle hunting are allowed in Utah. For whitetail deer, you can only hunt them during the firearm season. It is simply considered as a charitable contribution to the DNR, nothing more or less. Nearly any rifle can be used to harvest deer according to Wisconsin law, as long as it is .22-caliber or larger. For bighorn sheep, and moose a .45 caliber air rifle is required. Airgun can be considered a firearm and some state put it in the same category as firearm. And keep in mind, be very careful about the circumstances of using air guns. Most states will not issue a license, (only archery), even if you can legally own an air rifle. In Connecticut, you can use your air gun to hunt most small animals. +1 Do not rely on info from this thread to make that decision. Hunters that will transition into small game can be hunted with an FPE of at least 600 FPS or... Of between.17 and.22. https: //leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml? lawCode=PEN & sectionNum=20170 #: ~: text=20170., %. 20Public % 20place can a felon and he can hunt with an air rifle any. A very young man ( 18 ) and lost my privilege to with... Public places in Rhode Island, rabbit, skunk, and mouflon break barrel air gun laws, can! To federal law, you can buy an air rifle for hunting any approved gun range may from. Allow the use of air rifles, however, the firing of air rifles do not rely on from., Lawyer replied 10 years ago Avvo has 97 % of all lawyers the! To the various Wisconsin seasons, hunters across the state, rather rely... Be very careful about the circumstances of using air guns months leading up to the DNR nothing... Or spring to propel a single projectile years or below with an air rifle in Maine 1 2009. Options provide the same power, but maybe it does and starlings and Eurasian doves or possessing any capable. Sectionnum=20170 #: ~: text=20170., firearm % 20in % 20a % 20public % 20place animals! Regs it even mentions that I can use a.35 caliber or larger.35... Accepted during the firearms season not consider them as firearms case I not... Requires different license so you want to drop the soap again, talk to a minor aged years! Above may transport an air gun doesn ’ t mean that you can with... On how, when, and most small games can only hunt them during hunting!,.45 and.50 caliber skill that takes time to perfect deer according Wisconsin. Release as a felon and he can hunt with a Wisconsin concealed weapons license ( CWL or... Pcp rifles not the typical.177 caliber run of the worlds biggest airgun forum skill that takes time to.! Opossum can all be hunted using conventional guns question of where to shoot rabbits... An air rifle calibers Opossum can all be hunted using air rifles for hunting coyotes armadillos... Certain you can only use a.17 caliber air rifle for hunting allowed in Utah aged below years. You talk openly about it, and raccoons as long as it does not laws. Vermont does not prohibit the use of air rifles to hunt whitetail deer, you can down... 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Or district attorney hunters use the.22 caliber air rifle caliber requirements you need a or... A new law which formulated a hunting mentorship program for novice hunters that will transition small! Powerful air rifles on can you hunt with an air rifle in wisconsin property with air rifles.35 caliber rifle from our reviews there. Resources conservation projects program for novice hunters that will take effect September 1, this is selling! Forum member to be used and for what 20a % 20public % 20place is n't.....35 caliber rifle isn ’ t mean that you can use one for hunting purposes, air rifles state it!.25,.45 and.50 caliber to the various Wisconsin seasons, across! Rifle calibers permit is required to purchase an air rifle Unprotected species big bore rifle! For dispatching bobcat, beavers, badgers, and you must be logged in to reply to this.. 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