You have nothing to be ashamed of with respect to recoil: 12 gauge shotguns shooting big sabot slugs at maximum velocities produce punishing recoil that far exceeds the recoil from common deer rifle calibers … including the Magnums. Drop at Heel: 2-1/2″ The stock drop is user-adjustable. Case in point: Hornady’s 12 gauge, 300 grain SST slugs exit the barrel at 2,000 feet per second. I use 2 3/4″ SSTs as they “group” the best out of the barrel of all the sabot slugs I’ve tested to date, and all the 3″ sabots have been less accurate in my experience. We had foster type slugs that looked like a minie ball on roids and a round lead musket style ball we called punkin’ balls. I held the shotgun against my shoulder as tight as I could and took the first shot. With a few minor changes that should set you back no more than $100 and an hour of your time, you could have yourself a fairly ergonomic hunting gun capable of taking down pretty much anything in North America that lets you get within a 100 yards or so of it. The other addition is the large chunk of cantilever Picatinny rail mount. 33 Posts . Barrel Length: 24” rifled slug barrel with 1:35 rate of twist, matte finish. What exactly did he think was going to happen? If using Foster slugs, stick with the 12. Buy Stoeger Industries parts online now at the official Stoeger Industries Online Store. simple to take apart when it needs cleaned. The muzzle blast was deafening, even with hearing protection, but the stars I was seeing were even worse! In other words, take the $2000 you’d spend on an M2 and blow it on ammo. There’s good news though. Stoeger barrels for their full line of shotgun models can be found here at MGW. I have taken many deer with shotguns here in southern WI before rifles were finally allowed a few years ago, and decided that open sights, 2.75″ foster-style slugs with a smooth bore is the best way to go. The Stoeger 3000 shotgun has the look and feel of a more expensive automatic, with the same functionality. I only took three shot’s and I was done at two. I happened to see the Stoeger guys at the SHOT show and they sheepishly admitted that their guns come packed pretty well with grease and that their first fix for any reliability problems is to remove the barrel, degrease the action spring and mechanism, and reassemble. Once I cleaned the grease out of the action and applied a lightweight oil, things got much better. You want a new experience in pain? This magazine tube extension will fit Stoeger M3000, M3500, P3000 and P3500 shotguns. By the way my limit shooting that combination is about 15 rounds. Just use a ar15 pistol in shotgun only zone in MN. 65 gr. Like my friends, I began by shooting Federal 3 inch Foster-type slugs out of an unmodified 870 bird gun and progressed to the current state of the art: a Savage 220F with a 3×9 Weaver and Remington Accutips. Videos. That is twice the weight of common .30 caliber bullets at about 70% of common .30 caliber muzzle velocities. Magnum slugs from the Serbu Super Shorty were not pleasant. (in stock) 0.0 At that point he dropped, spun around on the ground for about 5 seconds, and never moved again. Adjust your bench setup to permit an upright posture and you’ll notice much less recoil as you body can flex and soak up some of the shock. Required fields are marked *. He chose this gun based mostly on cost. I have a well used M3000 that has developed a problem extracting shells. Out of stock. like the inertia system on the stoeger. That being said do not discount the midwest “one rifle man” to put venison in the freezer even if that man’s one rifle is a simple pump shotgun with open sights and a lot of practice behind it…. Depends on the semiauto’s action type. Find a Stoeger dealer and make one yours. He’s using an AR-height mount with a cantilevered rail above the receiver. shot. Sure enough, once I did that, my issues disappeared completely letting feeding and extraction resume uninterrupted. West Texas is about as close as we get, and even Lubbock has some bumps in the ground. The issue with the M3000R was that shooting this gun was unlike anything else I’ve ever gotten to put my hands on. It is common that this machine has got some major problems and therefore should be given a second thought before opting for it. I tested several types of rifled slug ammo and could never get anything better than palm sized groupings at 50 yards. Before he could eject that dud and load another slug, that buck managed to get running again (probably on three legs) and ran more than 100 yards to cross a road and disappear on another property. The nice thing about the SBE2 is that the upper receiver is also part of the detachable barrel assembly, so you can mount a scope right the receiver, which is preferable to a cantilever mount. I managed to eek out several sub-three-inch groups which would make this a very deadly weapon when fired at the vital zone of big game at distances nearing 100 yards. As someone who hunts in the snow with plenty of padding, three inch slugs only hurt the shoulder and your pride when you miss (or so I am told ;)). If you opt to go with a receiver mount instead of the cantilever scope mount, you’ll regret it. Be ready to follow up with a finisher. And by that I’m referring to its punishing recoil. Surprisingly absent from both lines, though, was a smaller, 20-ga. counter-part to the ubiquitous 12. The second type is the sabot, and that’s where I found much better luck. Changing shims using this kit provides a customized sighting plane to fit your unique physical build and shooting style. Check to compare I’ve got a camo 24″ M3000 with a tube extension for 10+1. I’ve never gotten scope bit from my 870 slug gun, but my thumb raked across the bridge of my nose several time when firing at running whitetails. As Stoeger didn’t include a front bead, this is definitely a gun designed to use an optic, but doing so effectively isn’t easy. I bought a Mossberg 500 cantilever-scoped 3 inch 12 gauge WAY back in the late 80’s . I believe the 20 gauge Hornady SST sabot slugs shoot a 250 grain, 45 caliber bullet at 1900 fps versus the 12 gauge Hornady SST sabot slugs that shoot a 300 grain, 50 caliber bullet at 2000 fps. The only time I’m going to shoot any more than one or two slugs out of that thing My research on the topic will have to continue at another date as Stoeger would very much like their semi-auto shotgun back. Find 12 gauge and 20 gauge variants in many different lengths and finishes to match your shotgun perfectly. Since you’re in Texas, put a low red dot on it, like a Burris Fast Fire, and use it for walking up hogs or for close in hogs over a feeder. So my cousin loaded another slug to put it down and “click”, he had a DUD! I have a low round count M3500 that I bought new last fall. Past that, physics catches up with your projectile and it quickly starts to succumb to gravity, negatively affecting accuracy. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Reader Poll: Mossberg 500 Beats Remington 870 by a Nose! That experience makes you think twice about pulling the trigger for a follow-up shot (not to mention clouds your vision with tears). Then it started rearing up and jumping. I use mine mainly for 3 gun, but also waterfowl and deer hunting. (Burris Droptine scope and rings not included. My last range appearance sighting in my M3000 smoothbore 28″ saw me firing 40ish 3″ magnum slugs (no less than 35) to feel comfortable with a 75 yd. Never shot or heard of a Stoeger, which didn't have problems one way or another. Otherwise, I am with you on the Mossberg 500 series or Remington 870 series. I have had holes touching each other on a target at 100 yards. I wouldn’t expect a defense-focused shotgun to have a crisp light trigger. If you are hunting a moose or grizzly bear, then the larger bullet of the 12 gauge sabot is an advantage. Choose from our variety of lengths and … If this were my gun, a Karsten cheek riser and a receiver-mounted rail would be on order post haste. With a receiver-mounted optic, you will have to rezero every time the barrel is removed for cleaning. This beauty is equipped with a ventilated rib, giving the shooter a quick target acquisition. It’s all in shooting technique- run a pump regularly enough for some time and it will likely work the same for you. Get a youth model 20 ga. and load it with 3 inch mag bucksshot or slugs. I’ve taken about ten and never had any issues with losing deer. Admittedly, I had no desire to fire so many but was thrown off by a couple boxes of #1 buck that got mixed in with my slugs. you save 7%. We didn’t have rifled shotguns or sabot slugs back then. Three years ago, the like-chambered M3000 replaced the popular M2000. After firing a round, the bolt moves rearward but the extractor lugs slip off the lip on the base of the shell leaving the spent shell case in the receiver. My 300 BLK takes deer just as well and is a pleasure to plink with! I’ve taken accurate shots out to 100 yards and never lost an animal. This gun could probably do it for real. I posted pictures for everybody to see. Out of stock. They both kicked like a mule out of a fairly light gun and the best accuracy I could get at fifty yards was minute of 1 gallon anti freeze jug with 3 shots. Inertia guns basically fire from a fixed breech IIRC, and so exert similar recoil to a pump. He had the right idea by using a Micro, though. In general semi-autos exhibit slightly less recoil than their counterparts in pump action. I picked mine up (smoothbore) for right about $500 on sale. Our price: $649.98. I’ve had other 500’s before that one and still have one today. Call the Stoeger Industries customer service department at (301) 283-6981 (option 2) or (800) 264-4962 (option 2) between 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. EST. The downside is that you have to use a different forend for the slug barrel, and the whole assembly is overpriced, IMO. One sight-in session took me 35 slugs due to an extremely lousy boresighting job at the gun shop – both my shoulder and wallet were hurting a bit after that one. I’d still like a slug gun with less recoil though. Discussion Starter • #1 • Apr 19, 2016. This had me making wild adjustments to the scope before realizing what had happened and having to re-zero. They perform at a much higher level than their price tag and the customer service from Stoeger is what you would expect from a top shelf gun. If you can shoot all 5 slugs your a better man then I am. best part is it shoots to where i point it. The trigger on the M3000 is not particularly heavy, but it does have quite a bit of mush and creep. Never once have I scoped myself and the scope is set pretty far back since I’m only 5’8″ and 165. Unfortunately, I was never able to get the M3000 in the field for any actual hunting opportunities. Toss in a Karsten Riser and you might have yourself a totally workable solution. Not gonna lie, the recoil on a 12 ga. Slugger is rough, though I believe the author to be exaggerating. not many shotguns have done that for me. rib present on the barrel is smaller in size. Said rail allows the addition of whatever optics your heart desires, but this design really lends itself well to unmagnified red-dot optics. This is the typical chamber length for economy-price shotguns, as magnum ammo doesn’t come cheap. That rail, while solidly screwed to the barrel, sits so far above the receiver — and the stock comb sits so far below — that you really do have to assume more of a chin weld than a cheek weld to get a look through your optic. The entire path was covered in blood. Needless to say, I removed that extra recoil pad and have never again experienced scope bite to my face. While that extra recoil pad definitely removed the pain of the recoil, it also enabled the shotgun to attain enough recoil velocity for the scope to bite my eyebrow and cause a small gash that produced a tiny amount of bleeding. Beyond that, the rail is too high above the bore to be functional with the stock drop at comb. At least it wasn’t a pump. Having never shot an animal with a 385-grain projectile I was curious more than anything about the terminal ballistics. Am i missing something? Specifications. There were many stops along the way and I have 6 or 8 different slug launchers gathering dust in the basement safe to prove it. The scope came back and put a deep gash in my forehead and it was gushing blood all over. I sold that beast shortly after my face healed, and still have that crescent shaped scar. That said, this is a fairly workable firearm that can be had at a very reasonable price. It’s not quite the meat destroying blow-up you would expect, but it does put a good solid hole through both sides of even the mountain deer we have around southern Oklahoma. Item Number Barrel Length Finish/Stock Overall Length Average Weight MSRP; M3000 Shotgun 12-Gauge 2-3/4" and 3" As such, I only took the M3000 out on a few occasions, all of them ending in me throwing the gun back in the case after 20 or so rounds whilst cursing. That thing ran well over 200 yards before keeling over. There was one that had extraction/ ejection issues from day one, and two that had trigger doubling issues out of the box. you save 12%. I bought a 12 gauge about 4 years ago. Our readers who live in what politicians and media types deem flyover country — specifically the fields of the Midwest — know a different reality. After he did this three or four times with no end in sight, I put another slug through his neck. Recoil with pump guns and regular slugs is very manageable. I once hit a 1.5 year old buck in both shoulders with a cheap rifled slug at something like 50 yards. Plenty of power and fast follow up shots. As a born-and-bred Texan, I am unfamiliar with places in this fine country devoid of hills, trees, and obstructions. (I have a Swift Optics scope that actually has a reticle lock feature to prevent reticle drift from punishing recoil.) It can handle a 2 ¾-inch load up to a 3-inch magnum load without any adjustments needed. As such, some of their local governing bodies have deemed rifles unwelcome. Pumps aren’t even that bad; in one afternoon I can shoot twenty slugs, a substantial quantity of buckshot, and a fair bit of practice birdshot with absolutely no bruising or discomfort. Hence the red dot you see in the photos. ), Optional features: 13-ounce mercury recoil pad, pistol grip and field stock. I took it to the range with a few boxes of magnum sabot slugs, ready to get it all sighted in for the upcoming WI gun deer season. I pride myself on being slightly more prompt than that. Rifles generally kill deer much quicker. Slow rounds, even when they pack a punch due to mass, don’t have that effect – they just drill a large hole. The Savage 220 slug gun with Hornady 250 gr. For 3 gun I have a tube extension that increases capacity to 11. 20ga Foster slugs just don’t have enough mass behind them for comfort. This is very much a utility gun and won’t be impressing your hunting buddies around the campfire with its looks. Cantilevered Picatinny optics rail. That said, the action is smooth and various levers and switches operate crisply and without fail. I’m shooting 3″ 3 shot groups at 75 yds with regularity from a bag rest. It should come as no surprise that shotgun slugs of all varieties are typically devastating to deer. I would dare say that 20ga makes more sense for a slug gun, anyway. It will take all the same game, it has less felt recoil, and its terminal ballistics are better (surprisingly good, in fact – sufficient to pull off 200 yard shots). Anyway first day on the skeet field and the gun wouldnt cycle 2 3/4 rounds. You never notice recoil while hunting anyway. Beretta’s New A400 Xtreme Plus – Could This Be the Ultimate Waterfowl Shotgun? In either case, I could have shot more but my time ran out. That Stoeger rig is where I was about two steps ago, only I would have put a fixed 4 power scope on it. I would love to take my cast reloads out further with a rifled barrel. Your email address will not be published. gameking to the vitals works fine and a lot easier to carry then my mossberg 590. What is the recoil between a semi-auto slug gun and a pump gun? Spring washers are captured by a redesigned forearm, which was a potential malfunction problem on the M2000. Perhaps if you had chosen a lower base for your red dot, instead of the AR height base, you would’ve gotten a better cheek weld. The Stoeger 3000 is a lot of shotgun for the money, but let's start at the beginning. If using sabot slugs, then by all means go with the 20. Click to browse all the current parts offered from Stoeger now. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The most general issue was the second lower barrel is devoid of firing, especially after the first shot. So, there is a difference in terms of generating recoil. I shudder to think what this would do to an animal of any size. Folks spend allot of money and time to go hunting, etc. Never again. I’ve only hunted with a pump gun and can attest to how stout the recoil is on those. If, like me, you’d never given consideration to a slug gun before, know that ammunition manufacturers produce two different types of slug loads. First thing i did was take the gun apart and cleaned it. I took it that weekend to test it out and shot #2 duck load to break it in. Round here (Illinois) we call that Minute of Deer. It broke both arms, going through the very front of the thoracic cavity, and dropped him on the ground like a sack of potatoes … for about 1 second. It holds accuracy to practical standards at the distances at which it was designed to be shot. I’m sure a magnified optic (such as Leupold) and a good sabot load could yield better results than I was able to achieve, but your shoulder will hurt getting to that point. As impressive as the power of a 12 gauge slug gun seems to be, I can tell you that it is certainly no death ray on deer. Nothing like a 12 gauge slug gun to teach you not to crawl up on the stock while sighting in. Synthetic stocks on some shotguns may have fewer square inches of surface area against your shoulder and can seem to kick harder. I don't care about brand names either, I want them to function reliably for 400-600 rounds /month. Add in the ferocious recoil and you find yourself with a gun that will only get shot a few times a year. Necessity being the mother of invention, turning a shotgun into a passable rifle is the natural result. Check to compare Stoeger M3500 12 Ga Shotgun 24" Barrel. By the way I tried adding a really nice recoil pad to my 12 gauge slug gun to help with that monster recoil. Top #2926268 - 02/04/16 01:27 PM Re: mossberg auto vs stoeger autoloader [ Re: ohihunter2014 ] No use for 3″ slugs though. Stopping power is not something I think slug hunters worry about much. We do our best to run guns as they come out of the box and out of the box, the M3000 R wouldn’t reliably feed or cycle. And even shooting only 15 rounds, I will have slight bruising of my shoulder the next day and it WILL be sore. When funds permit, I really, really want to pick up a Savage 212. But my 590 works pretty well all the way out to 50-60 yards and I like using cheap slugs… This platform digests anything you throw at it. Hunting in the snow, as I understand it, usually means several layers of down helping to cushion the blow of this mighty hellcat. Best Shotgun To Buy For Hunting: 2017 Reviews. Love it. I have only shot two deer with a slug one at 45 yards the other at 85 yards. That all changed in 201… In my case it seems like I only get about 5 shots before the pattern starts to open quickly. Shotguns, these days are available with diverse specifications and thus provide a great scope for people to choose according to their taste and needs. I never knew the limitations of an open sighted shotgun with correctly matched up slugs until I spent a spell out west in WA state hunting big game at true rifle ranges. Go ahead, friends. Tyler, If you want some bad recoil tryout a stock Rossi single shot 12ga with a 5 round box of Winchester 1oz 2-3/4″ slugs. One of my favorite slug guns was a browning bps deer/turkey special, and the remington 870 slug model with a monte carlo style stock is also a good choice. Never had a problem with it cycling shells and it shoots just as good as any gun I’ve ever shot. Notice my choice of word “slightly”. That rail, while solidly screwed to the barrel, sits so far above the receiver — and the stock comb sits so far below — that you really do have to assume more of a chin … I placed the barrel on a sandbag, chambered a round, tucked the recoil pad into my shoulder, looked through the scope, and touched off a round. I was able to resume beating my shoulder up with reckless abandon. Being a semi-automatic shotgun, the Stoeger Model 3020 is the best choice in waterfowling. I finally discovered the apparent reason: plastic fouling in the barrel from the sabots. I found that my groups get larger and larger the more sabot slugs I shoot. Now we can hunt pretty much anywhere with rifles in Wisconsin so my dream has come true. I’ve had few DRT shots and lots of runners with many blood trails to follow, even with massive internal damage. I suspect a Stoeger shotgun is intended for people who are more concerned about a name than value. Find helpful customer reviews and review ratings for Stoeger Model 3000 M3000 Limiter Shotgun Plug, Orange - 33567 at Amazon.com. And my cousin put a nice 12 gauge slug through a buck at 70 yards. Three years ago, the like-chambered M3000 … My father-in-law used a 20 gauge shotgun and put a perfect heart and double-lung pass through shot on a white-tailed deer. ©COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. The Best sub-$1000 Inertia Shotguns. So i bought a Stoeger M3500 Max 4 28 inch semi Shotgun on March 5th. You realize this platform is considered the “poor man’s Benelli” right? See above re: the scope-bite problem. Since I can hunt with a rifle, I wouldn’t go out of my way to pull the M3000 R out of the safe unless I knew I’d be facing a very large, very dangerous animal. New from Weatherby: SA-08 28 Gauge Deluxe Shotgun, Segmented Shotgun Slug Showdown: Winchester PDX-1 Segmented vs. DDupleks Hexolit 32. Since I live in the People’s Republic of Illinois, I’ve been a slug hunter for 40 years and have gone through the evolution of the slug hunting rig from then to now. My understanding is that fully rifled slug barrels shooting sabot slugs can attain astounding accuracy for that platform with a suitable scope. Typical groupings at 50 yards with an unmagnified red dot were on the order of half that size. That’s on top of issues incurred by the barrel shifting minutely. Also, the Stoeger shotgun of this review is a semi-automatic … that increases the price significantly over pump-actions as well. Up there, a misplaced shot during deer season can travel miles, or so I’ve been told. “If I had any sense at the time, I would’ve put the money on the slug barrel kit towards a 20 gauge bolt action – that would get the job done as well as a 12 gauge and be easier on the shoulder, too.”. It’s not surprising – small and fast rounds tenderize meat at a significant distance from the wound channel because of high velocity induced shockwave, making it weaker; and then they tend to fragment a lot as well. If you’ve never shot 11 rounds of 12 gauge as fast as you can draw a bead and pull the trigger, you’re missing out. Market Price: $699.99. Gun Review – Remington Model 870 TAC-14 Hardwood, Gun Review: Benelli M2 Tactical ComforTech, Gun Review: Beretta A400 Xplor Unico with Kick-Off. My wife’s .223 actually does more meat damage than my 12 gauge slugs, at least the deer we’ve dressed. They make do, hunting monster corn-fed deer with a shotgun. But you have to consider the pros and cons of each one before buying. Normally a long gun review wouldn’t take me the better part of six months to complete. Both the M2000 and M3000 are 12-gauge shotguns with 3-inch chambers. Receiver drilled and tapped for scope mounting. There’s just something soothing about loading up a tube of slugs and then bracing for the horrible shoulder punishment. In fact, I feel like I shoot better with it. Your email address will not be published. Shooting ergonomics aside, I found the controls to be fairly crisp and the bolt moves very smoothly inside the action. is if my or someone else’s life depends on it. Read honest and unbiased product reviews from our users. m3000 12/28 max-5 28in 12 gauge max 5 camo 4+1rd. It was a thing of beauty, with it’s cheap Bushnell scope, already mounted and bore-sighted. My thoughts precisely. But don’t count on them to always yield “dead right there” carcasses even with textbook perfect shot placement. in the movies… the good guy shoots a bad guy RUNNING toward him and actually blows him backward a few feet. Could you still use your hand after that? For deer hunting down here in southeast Pennsylvania I use a SBE2 with the factory rifled slug barrel. It was state of the art at the time with it’s monte carlo style stock and fully rifled barrel. Nothing has ever kicked like that gun. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. It hurts them a lot worse than it hurts you, so update your man card and you’ll be fine. The above mentioned shotguns are top rated Stoeger choices. This is my third Stoeger (M3000, M3020, and Condor Competition Combo) and I could not be more happy with them all. On that gun, you must pin and shim the barrel to the receiver mount to have any accuracy and it still won’t best the barrel mounted scope. The movement of the action generates a counter-impulse that dramatically reduces felt recoil. Buy Stoeger M3000 & M3500 Ejector Factory replacement gun parts, accessories and gunsmithing service on most manufacturers including Browning, Winchester, FN America, Beretta, Benelli Franchi, Stoeger, Remington, Bushmaster, Marlin, Sig Sauer, HK and many more. That is somewhat disappointing. This is the time when you burly Midwesterners will likely question my manhood. The Stoeger’s is no better or worse than most of the others out there, although the trigger shoe itself is fairly small. As a slug hunter for about 30 years this is the best combo I have hunted with. And bullet drop out to 200 yards is manageable if you set your zero to something like 125 yards. Various people (and Hornady) claim that SST sabot slugs will deliver amazing accuracy well out to 200 yards (more than enough to reliably hit a deer’s vital zone). The M3000 Shotgun is a working gun that gets the job done. A 12 ga. H&R single shot. Bolt-action slug guns are certainly capable of longer shots with sabots, but they are pricey. Stoeger 3500 cycling problem. Maybe shim the stock or lace on a cheek piece. I dont find the recoil to be much more than my .308. As far as recoil goes, apply the fundamentals and it is easily bearable. Just make sure it fits you and you’ll be very happy with it. He was able to get it for the same price as the 3000 and figured more gun for the same money, why not. Models can be had at a very reasonable price remove the plastic fouling ), M3000! Wisconsin so my dream has come true this three or four times no! That increases capacity to 11 in southeast Pennsylvania I use mine mainly for skeet and trap was gushing all. Gun, and never moved again the next time I comment finally discovered the reason. And closest was an in the field my cast reloads out further with a of. Very much a utility gun and can attest to how stout the recoil between a semi-auto slug and. 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